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Nov 24, 2009, 4:16am

Supplement Police :: CERTIFIED MEMBERS :: Supplement Scandals :: IBE Epistane

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Topic: IBE Epistane (Read 787 times)

im2large
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IBE Epistane
« Thread Started on Sept 17, 2007, 4:20pm »

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/blog/?p=153

Tests out pretty low compared to label claim. Less than 40% of label claim actually.

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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #1 on Sept 20, 2007, 2:33am »

Interesting lab test results. Too bad, as this company has some very interesting products. Perhaps they've addressed this test and it results. Hopefully we can get them to discuss it and other tests they have done on their products to assure users of there quality.

Another interesting thing I noticed on the lab report was that it was commissioned by Mike McCandless the CEO of Primaforce as stated on his bb.com bodyspace profile? He was not and has not been a big supporter of this site even though he claims to have originated the idea, but decided to abandon his own version of it due to the high costs of legal fees associated with defending its existence. His self proclaimed expertise in this area would be appreciated here at www.supplementpolice.com.

Perhaps we can get him to explain the rational behind having IBE Epistane tested?

Mike???

You there??

« Last Edit: Sept 20, 2007, 2:35am by Supplement Police »

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lmd
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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #2 on Sept 20, 2007, 6:52pm »

Okay, I have been asked to come over here and post a response to this. This was ended some time ago on Anabolic Minds but apparently it hasn't filtered out to everyone yet. It is pretty sad though that people believed someone like PA or MM considering they are both competition to our company and therefore have a "vested interest" in tearing Epistane apart. Thankfully for us their libel was unsuccessful. After they posted these supposed results we had every batch sent to a PhD in forensic toxicology, who worked for a company named: Expertox/Accutrace (both companies work together). The problem with the other places that were testing it was they had no standard to test against. We paid Accutrace to create a standard for us to test against, send it to us so that we can fingerprint it on an IR and use it later for our lab testing and then test it themselves qualitatively and quantitatively. The results were amazingly different and it confirmed every test we had previously done. The tests stated that:

Epistane: Contained 100% of the alpha isomer (stronger isomer of methyl epitiostanol) and contained 10mg/capsule of active.

Competitor product that I will not mention but all should be able to figure out: Contained ~88% alpha isomer and ~12% beta isomer (the much less potent isomer). It also contained 10mg/capsule of total active (this includes both alpha and beta isomers).

This greatly detracted from the claim that another lab had made that said both Havoc and Epistane contained something like 5-6 mg active per capsule, which was absolutely ridiculous. Unless the capsule company was capsuling our product with a 50% or cheating us than they were wrong. The other testing lab (that MM paid for) also stated that they "felt" Epistane wasn't the real deal and that only the competitor product had the right peaks on the mass spectrograph. Unfortunately we could not base our company on assumptions, which is why we went with Accutrace and a PhD in forensic toxicology.

I will post the results below. It is actually amusing looking back on it because of how hard MM and PA fought to devalue Epistane, saying they were doing it for the good of the people. Ironically enough (or not so ironically) PA announced he was coming out with 11-oxo shortly thereafter, and suddenly MM was taking control of Primaforce. No vested interest huh? Not only that but they attacked the results that we posted saying it was only a 'cover letter'. Yeah you're absolutely right. We had posted the mass spectrograph results and IR results but no one understood them and the ones that somewhat understood them attempted to attack them. Closet scientists galore were commenting giving their 2 cents, arguing against a forensic toxicologist about what he saw. But again we took the high road and said that we would pay for PA to talk with Dr. Lykissa ($500/hour) to discuss the results and explain to him everything he wanted to know as to end this. Once again PA pushed this away saying that it should be someone else that should talk to him. That was amusing as well considering it was PA who started the whole debacle in the first place. Of course PA never did end up speaking with him.

The other interesting part is someone on bb.com was supposed to be running some NMR on the substance. Suddenly he dropped off the face of the earth when he was supposed to post his results. I guess there is just all kinds of irony here. He had told me in a PM that he wasn't posting because he had been "very busy" but that he felt we were right and Epistane was the real deal and he would post his results when he 'had time'. 5 months later and no results.

Anyways, here is the letter that Dr. Lykissa had sent me. Please don't call him, he had numerous calls about this from little internet nerd and it was very rude of them to do that, considering he has better things to do.

(I apologize ahead of time, the original file is a PDF but I am just copying and pasting it as an image, so it is a bit cutoff at the bottom. I had originally posted it as a PDF file on AM but this is just easier):

[image]

« Last Edit: Sept 20, 2007, 6:55pm by lmd »

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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #3 on Sept 21, 2007, 1:30am »

Excellent reply Imd,

That explains a lot.

Can you post a link to that discussion on the Anabolic Minds forum so those interested can see how this went down?

« Last Edit: Sept 21, 2007, 1:31am by Supplement Police »

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lmd
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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #4 on Sept 21, 2007, 4:54pm »

Quote:

Excellent reply Imd,

That explains a lot.

Can you post a link to that discussion on the Anabolic Minds forum so those interested can see how this went down?

Can we please change the name of this thread? It sounds too factual when under the "Supplement Scandal" thread is "IBE Epistane". Can we change that to Havoc vs. Epistane?

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Tango
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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #5 on Sept 28, 2007, 1:24pm »

No matter what thread you're in, you just about covered it all! Maybe you can post email communications between the two to further explain what all went down?

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illinipa
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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #6 on Oct 25, 2007, 10:29pm »

Quote:

Excellent reply Imd,

That explains a lot.

Can you post a link to that discussion on the Anabolic Minds forum so those interested can see how this went down?

I tested the epistane and i tested the havoc and other clones. i interpreted my results under the most objective mindset i could have. havoc and the clones were undeniably different than epistane. havoc and the clones had mass spectrum that was consistent with the expected compound; epistane had a mass spectrum that was not.

now from my understanding epistane has gotten decent feedback. well that is plenty cool, maybe it contains an active mystery compound. But in my steroid chemistry experience i can tell you that epistane does NOT appear to be the correct compound.

i have no more or less interest in, or animosity towards any of the clones than i do towards epistane. So my reporting should be interpreted as objective.

p.s. i have been an innovative-research customer in the past and i am not ashamed to admit it, so that should tell you that i have no bug up my ass towards IBE

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azza11
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Re: IBE Epistane
« Reply #7 on Apr 23, 2009, 5:16am »

I have used Epistane and it worked for me. I would like to know the mystery compound.
AZZA

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